Good morning, afternoon, and evening, everybody, and welcome to the sixteenth CDO IQ conference from MIT. And welcome to this episode of CDO matters. I’m here with my good friend Sanjeev, a former fellow, recovering analyst from from from Gartner. And I’m excited to talk to him today about, what we’ve been experiencing over the last three days of this fantastic conference. So so what are some of the key trends that you’ve seen so far at at the event? Anything kinda stand out as as as remarkable or memorable?

Yeah. You know, couple of things. So first of all, what I’ve noticed is that the CDO role has become really, one of negotiation and sales. I guess it was always like that, but the CDOs are getting much more tightly integrated with the businesses. In fact, one thing that I I keep hearing is that the CDO role is becoming like an hub and spoke.

So, there there is a shift away from, only doing compliance and regulatory stuff into doing analytics. So it’s all about monetizing, democratizing, getting value out of your data. So there’s a huge focus.

In fact, if I may add one more thing, what I’ve noticed is that there’s a last few CDO IQs, where I was involved. There was a lot of focus on MDM, which is your space, right?

Yep.

This year, it’s not about MDM. It is about, so what? What is the value? And I’m sure you get that all the time. So there’s much more focus on how do I do better analytics? How do I improve my quality? How do I do self-service analytics rather than let’s talk tech?

Yep. Well, that that’s I’ve seen the exact same thing. And and that’s really, really good news, I think, for CDOs. I think that’s good news for the space.

I know that, you know, when when we were still at Gartner, they had published their recent CDO survey. And that said that twenty five percent of CDOs are responsible for digital transformation initiatives. And I think that’s what you’re seeing here now, which is this focus more on business outcomes. Like I’m I’m the CDO and I’m responsible for customer experience or customer retention or even in some cases, research and development in new solutions to meet some of those transformation goals.

So yeah. Exactly what you’re saying. Totally consistent with some of the things I’ve seen. Some of the other things that I’ve I’ve seen which are which are interesting, is this notion of of of product management, in in the data management space, like the application of, you know, data products.

Right? I think I think we can thank the data mesh a little bit Yeah. For this because that’s kind of a a core tenant there. But I think it goes a little bit farther than that, which is the application of product management as a discipline into the data space.

Right? Like, if you were going to be making a widget, you know, what would the market need be? What would the market size be? How how much would people be willing to pay for that widget?

How would it function and all of those things? So at a high level, I think that’s a that’s a really good trend is this trend towards kind of product management and the data management space.

Mhmm.

So that’s certainly one of the one of the trends that I’ve I’ve been seeing.

So, just for the viewers, you might have seen me now.

This is my third day in a row. I’m doing, like, some sort of recording. And, actually, the joke is that between Scott Taylor, aka the data whisperer, Malcolm and I, we’ve met we’ve done all permutations combinations.

Scott was on my previous It Depends podcast. But why I’m bringing this up is because yesterday, I I was on Malcolm and Scott’s, podcast, LinkedIn live, and I was explaining how, data as a product has become so important, where we are thinking of of data.

Physically, it may be the same thing as before. There’s no no difference. But logically, when we think data as a product, then we think of its entire life cycle. How was it produced, after it’s consumed?

How do you destroy data that you don’t need anymore? So bringing that people and process discipline is what makes data as a product different from the way we have produced data previously. Because physically, it could be the same thing. It could be a table, a schema, or some sort of, like, an API call or a sequel, with a notebook.

Yeah. I I love I love the idea of, like, let’s come up with a sunset strategy for our data instead of archival.

Yeah. Yes. Right? Like, I I like I I like that.

That’s a good one.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, are we gonna sunset the data? Right? Like, sunsetting a product. So this notion of product life cycle, I love that.

And there’s so many things from a product management perspective to, like, I guess, where there’s a little bit of a twist is that if I was building a product from scratch, I would go and source the raw materials from a whole bunch of places. And I think in the data world, you you’re kind of given your materials. Like and and and I was in a session yesterday. I kind of a joke I said, it was like, you know, those team building exercises where they give you, like, a toilet paper roll and some some pasta and some duct tape and paper clips, and you have to go make something Yeah.

Out of that. I I see a little bit of a metaphor there in our world where there’s, like, data. There’s this set basket of data, and it’s like, okay. Now go go make something to to fill the need.

So I I still think it’s a valid approach. That’s that’s certainly one of the, the one of the trends.

What about some of the people, that that you’ve had a chance to interact with and and meet? What what are some of the things that stand out?

To me, that is the the highlight of this conference.

I agree.

It’s a networking Yeah. Because these are the people here are the CDOs, CD AOs, but these are the senior level decision makers with decades of experience, you know, under their sleeves and just learning from them, you know, how what challenges they face.

In fact, to be very honest, sitting in a session to me has a very high opportunity cost because you you can always watch the sessions recorded. Yeah. But the interactions that you have in the hallway are just outstanding. I mean, and, I I don’t think, even the organizers have seen this kind of of, networking even before pandemic when they used to meet. So this is a very big event. Over two thousand people have registered here.

Some people didn’t show up at the last minute because of pen because of COVID nineteen reasons.

But, but what about you?

What have you I I I couldn’t agree more.

You know, often, we go to these events and it’s and it’s the the, you know, it’s the event for farmers. Right?

And and then when you go and only twenty percent of the people are actually farmers.

And in this case, it’s the event for CDOs, and there are many, many, many CDOs here in in title and in role. And and I think that makes it, fair fairly unique.

So, certainly, if I was a newer CDO or even a well established CDO, this is the event that I I would want to come to.

Mhmm.

There’s a couple interesting twists here. There’s the usual kind of, you know, conference type experience, right, where you, you know, there there’s vendors, of course, because they’re paying for the food and Correct. Thank you vendors for the food.

And there’s a price tag to that, which means you need to kinda walk through the vendor hall to get to the in the presentations. That that’s normal stuff, and and that’s okay.

But one of the really cool twists here, is this connection into academia that that I didn’t really even know knew until this event even existed. Right? Like, I’m going to these presentations from MIT professors who are talking about data quality, talking about entity resolution, talking about quantum computing. Went to a session yesterday about that that was just fascinating.

So that’s an interesting angle here that that that I’ve been finding really refreshing is is this Yeah. This is this angle of of of academia that I wasn’t familiar with before.

Actually, that reminds me this morning.

I was getting coffee, from, cafe in in the on the exhibit hall, and I started talking to a professor.

His name is Dale Morgan. In nineteen ninety three, he started the first MIT class on data. Before that, there was no class that had the title data, and he was on his way to teach the eighty fifth session of data and models.

That is the name of his class.

He’s from Trinidad, and I was just fascinating that and he was talking about Mark Zuckerberg, and how when, Mark Zuckerberg was in Cambridge and was starting Facebook and how he had advised him and told him, by the way, it’s not a good idea. Don’t do it. You know? And I was telling him it was like a FedEx case. You know, the guy who did FedEx, you know, you got a c Yeah. In his project and, turned out to be the right decision.

Yeah. I I I’ve I’ve just sat in a session from from Tom Davenport, who who’s well known in the space of of, of data management and MDM and and and, session about AI and listing all the books that he had written, all these these long, long list of books. So it it’s it’s just been really been eye opening. I would absolutely recommend this for for any CDO who wants to build their network, who wants to to learn more about, I mean, the practice of of of being a CDO.

Certainly, well worth a, well worth the time here to to come. Just as quick quick disclaimer here. Obviously, we we’re in a common area. So there there there’s noise behind, and it’s we’re we’re kind of crashing in one of the undergraduate lounges here in the computer science and AI, building.

Yeah. The the laboratory at MIT, MIT Yeah. Which which is a a unique twist as well. So it’s that’s been kinda cool.

We’re interacting directly with with with students.

Took an interesting forum yesterday where, apparently, they, they they ran out of lunches because there was a a run from the MIT students on on the food.

They couldn’t quite, you know, protect all of the the food from the, from the MIT students, but but I can’t certainly blame them if I’m The the funniest thing was, later in the evening, some prospect students came by, with their moms, and they tried to get the freebie swags Yep.

You know, pens, pads, stickers, you know. And and the vendors’ booths were like, sorry. Only only for people with these badges, you know. So so by now, people had realized that a lot of these people and it was so interesting because the moms were, like, so keen on, you know, getting some of the stuff. Like, things that we take for granted in all these conferences, like socks and t shirts and Yeah.

You know? So What what do you think about some of the vendors? Right? Have you have you noticed anything interesting in terms of the vendors that are participating here?

You know, for me, no. And the reason I say that is because, I have seen some of the same vendors now in, half a dozen different conferences.

So for me, you know, this is a very different conference compared to Snowflake Summit, over ten thousand people in Las Vegas. And then Databricks Summit, MongoDB, and so many other summit. So so I I I’m seeing the same vendors.

So they for them, it’s it’s the same thing. You know?

Just a different venue. Right.

Where would you? Well, I’m I’m kinda struck by how many vendors are here who are focused on, I suspect what Gartner would have called, metadata management, or roughly kind of the data governance space, but really focused on, profiling discovery and cataloging. Right? I’m really struck. At least half of the vendors here are really focused on that. A lot of smaller providers that I had not heard of before.

To me, this is this is suggestive of, you know, more of a push towards, you know, the data catalog as a as a foundation of kind of a data management stack. You and I have always known that. Right? It’s been something that we we covered at at Gartner, but the vendor focus on on cataloging function, I I think is is interesting.

And I and I think to a certain degree, may be a little bit of a reaction to focus on data fabrics, potentially focus on on on metadata management, and maybe even a focus on this broader notion of more of a kind of a what Gartner is calling a data and analytics governance platform with all these kind of pieces fit together, but at the at the foundation of that is is is catalog. So there’s a lot of vendors here that are doing that. I’ve I’ve had a an interesting, experience going vendor to vendor and asking, like, for an elevator pitch. Like, it’s kinda something that I do at the at these events.

And can you articulate value of your solution in in thirty seconds?

It’s really startling how few can. Yeah. Right? Like like Yeah. If if you can’t if I’m a CDO, I’m a I’m a I’m a busy person, and I wanna know what value you bring.

You can’t really articulate that in thirty seconds or less. I think you’re gonna have a you’re gonna have a challenge. So I I found that to be an interesting interesting thing if you’re, like, kinda pushing the vendors to see, okay, what do you do that’s unique?

Right. See, this is very interesting you mentioned that because I have a a people who follow me, they know I like to understand how things are done.

At the surface level, I feel most technologies look identical in a category like data catalogs. Okay. Your data catalog, your data catalog, and your data catalog. But when you start peeling the onion, you realize, oh my god, you you you are focused on this, you do this and you do that. So so I find that, at this conference, maybe, you know, the CDOs and, the c level suite are at such high level that a lot of stuff starts on, let me tell you what is data governance.

And I’m like, I don’t wanna hear that.

Right.

I didn’t come all the way here to get one on one on a topic. I wanna go deeper, and and I don’t find that, in in a in a conference like this. Right. It’s a very, high level, you know, but it’s also, very much focused on people and process. That is a role of a CDO.

Yep.

I’m more focused on the technology part, which, you know, I get when I talk to people one on one.

Yep.

So so, like, the elevator pitch, sometimes I’m like, okay.

I hear your elevator pitch. Like, I talk to security company and they said we do all of this. I’m like, well, so do others.

But why are you different and how do you do it? And, actually, they had a hard time explaining to me that difference because because at this, the vendors have sent their salespeople or the sales executives, and and they don’t know deep down how their technology is unique.

Yeah. Well, that that’s problematic. Yeah.

You need to know how you’re you are unique as a vendor or as if I’m a CDO, I need to understand what makes you unique. Why should I why should I give you money?

I think there’s a there’s a metaphor or at least an analog here into data storytelling Mhmm.

As well. Right? Tell me the story of how your solution helps me, as I need to be able to tell the story of how the data that I provide helps Yeah. You. And, you know, it’s easy for technology people like me or us to say, well, we don’t sell. We’re not salespeople. Right?

I I would make out maybe a horrible salesperson.

I don’t know. I’ve never tried because I’ve I’ve I’ve always thought that sales was somebody else’s job. Mhmm. But at at the heart, this is something I’ve been hearing in a lot of presentations here, and it’s consistent with what we’ve been hearing for years now.

This notion data storytelling and being able to tell a data story Yeah. And how does data drive outcomes? How does data, support business processes? And and I just find it ironic that the vendors who are supposed to be supporting these clients, these customers, these companies can’t tell their own data story.

So I think we need to do a little bit of a work and Yeah.

I cannot agree more with you. I this is my pet peeve. And if any other vendors are listening to this, then don’t start by telling me what you have.

You know?

In fact, I almost on daily basis, you know, a vendor will walk me through the pitch, and I’m, like, literally trying to parse and understand what is it that makes them unique. So I’m I’m, like, you know, asking questions, taking down, taking notes, and then we reach the very end. Now we’re reaching, end of our slot, and they say, oh, let me tell you, this client, Pfizer, did this with our product. And I’m like, Now I understand what your product does. Why didn’t you start with that? You did this bottoms up, like, discovery me discovering what you do and trying to connect the dots when you could have just told me this is how our products are used. Now let me tell you, you know, what’s the next layer of detail, and what we built.

Yep.

So we can transition a little bit. I I would I would love to, you know since we’re we’re both ex Gartner, I I would love to better understand what what drove your transition and and where you see, you know, Sanjeev two dot o, three dot o, four Yeah. Four dot o. I I Oh, wow. I’d I’d love to understand, like, what you kind of envisioned for Right. How how you’re going to help, CEOs and other Right. Data leaders in the space.

Amazing question, by the way. I’m getting this question every day. This week, of, the, middle of July is one year anniversary since I left, left Gartner. So now my first year, unexpectedly turned out to be very busy and very meaningful.

So thank you. So I because when I took the plunge, I had no idea what lay ahead. I, you know, and now people are asking me, so are you gonna hire more people? Are you gonna build a company?

And can we come help you?

So this is a literally on daily basis, people are asking me, what is your long term strategy? One year from now, two years from now.

And I’m going on camera by saying I don’t have one.

I am I’m being very honest. I’m living in the moment, and I didn’t start, I didn’t become independent thinking that, you know, I’ll be doing all of these amazing things.

So organically, things happen. They happen. But, I you know, and some people have actually given me a lot of grief. These are my well wishers, afraid for you. We want we you don’t have a strategy. We you know, tell us what you’ll do a a year or two from now.

And I know I should have one. Maybe and by the way, I get a lot of unsolicited advice, so I have no dose of people telling me what I should do.

But then there’s a It’s coming.

Yeah. Okay. Good. Okay. Yes. I do wanna hear you. Okay. But I but I I I just want want people to know that that I feel that that we are living in such a dynamic space.

I’ve seen my clients with strategies that they keep throwing out and coming up with new strategies. So maybe it’s not a bad thing to not have a strategy.

So I I did both schools of thought, you know, so I’m still deciding.

There’s nothing wrong with living in the moment. How else are you supposed to live? Right? Like, I I I I love that. You used the word earlier this morning when we were having coffee downstairs, serendipity. Yes.

And and I think there’s there’s certainly something to be said there.

In my case, I’m just over three months, after my Gartner experience, which was a wonderful experience. Great company.

Fantastic company. Fantastic people. Really, really smart people. Gartner adds a ton of value in the market.

But there’s something that that to me there was some blocking and tackling that helped my my transition. Obviously, I got a great offer and a great opportunity.

But there was while I was at Gartner, after I was there about a year, a year and a half, I I kept noticing a recurring theme.

Mhmm.

And that that theme was is that, you know, I was writing research, and you were writing research. We were all writing research, and it’s fantastic.

Fact based, quantifiable stuff about best practices. You know, do a, do b, do c. Do do these things, and you will succeed. Right? We we had survey after survey survey that that that backs it up.

And I would be advising my clients these things, a, b, c.

And then I would get on the call with them in another three, four, five months, and and they hadn’t done it.

And and I took a really hard look at my messaging and and the way that I was delivering the message, and and I was like, okay.

What’s wrong? Or something is a little broken. Is is it is it me?

Am I just checking a box and and and and they’re just going and doing their own thing anyway? I I didn’t come up with all those answers, but the one thing I I realized was that from the perspective of helping CDOs and helping data leaders, helping CIOs, from my perspective at the very least, I think there’s a better way. Yeah. I don’t know what that way is yet. I’m I’m gonna allow serendipity to to help guide me. Yeah.

I so I don’t know what that that the better way is, but I know that there has to be one because, you know, yesterday, I was in a session, hosted by Joe Caserta, super smart guy. I’ve been in the space a long time, where he showed this slide, that that was basically a list of stats of how we, as a community, are are kind of failing. Right? How data management is still needing a lot of, of help.

And we did a lot of research at Gartner that was saying the same thing in terms of the state of data governance and, you know, how often, data leaders really understand the value of data. Are we treating data as an asset? All these things. And and we continue to really kinda struggle here.

So I’m passionate. I’m I’m really passionate about helping equip data leaders with the information that they need in the way that is most effective for them to receive it. I happen to think that these podcasts are a great tool Yeah. For that.

And and LinkedIn’s a great tool for that, and there are other tools, that I have greater access to now than I did before.

So so I’m excited to have in a conversation in another two to three years, and and and hopefully, some of those stats about the state of data management start to get a little bit better.

Yeah.

So, to on the similar lines, what I’m helping, how I’m approaching the data management issues is is my my goal in life is to demystify, trace them sort of like hierarchies, taxonomies.

How how do you consume these technology? How do you understand the space? That is my number one goal is in you pick a category or a space or a capability, and there’s just so many products in that. So how do you take a step back and say there is some sort of a flowchart?

If you want to do this, then here are some Decision tree. Yeah. Decision tree. Exactly. Thank you. Yeah. So that is what I’m I’m trying to understand constantly, create a point of view and and demystify.

So people say, and now I understand, because the language we use, like, you’re talking about data storytelling. Yeah. The language we use is very hard for business people to understand.

It is. Yeah. It is a great example. I we Scott and I had an interesting back and forth dialogue. Scott Taylor, the data was burned. I had a dialogue about data literacy yesterday, and I I happen to think that that phrase itself, data literacy, is is a little bit condescending.

Mhmm. I I I think. Yes. I think. Because it it seems to infer because the opposite of that is illiteracy.

Right? And and you’re you’re you’re basic you know, we’re basically telling the business, well, you just don’t understand the data.

And, it’s fascinating. I was in this in this session yesterday where I thought that I’d asked the world’s greatest question, to Joe Caserta. I I said, you know, if data and analytics leaders were more business literate, would we be asking business leaders to be more data literate? Yeah.

I thought it was like a mic drop. I I thought, like Yeah. Like, I just asked asked the the the bottom of the question. And then he turned it around, and and this is what makes him a brilliant consultant, is is he said, well, you may wanna think of data literacy this way.

And and what he said was is that if you walk outside and you wanna know the temperature, you you can open your phone and then you can look at the tech you can look at the your phone and you can see the temperature. And you know that ninety five means a lot and and thirty five means less, and you know that there’s a scale there.

Yeah.

And and you inherently know that how that scale works and the functions of that scale. I was like, oh, it’s a brilliant metaphor. Yeah. Right? Like, that that right there is how we need to be telling stories. That is how we need to explain the importance of data literacy instead of staying saying, I I have a data literacy program, and you business folks are are coming along for the ride because you’re you’re you’re, you know, you’re flirting with illiteracy.

Instead, I I don’t know all the magic answers here yet, but I do know that that one example of, you know, we know how thermostats work inherently. He’s a fantastic metaphor. We need to be focused more on those those metaphors, focused more on those kind of real world kind of applications of Right. Of these best practices that mean something to business leaders.

Yeah.

Like, there is no such thing as finance finance literacy. Right. Or, like, in our company today, we’re gonna make sure everyone is has manufacturing literacy, technology literacy. You know what I’m saying?

There’s no such thing. But why is so I I think we treat data with kid gloves. Right. You know?

We can you know, anyone can be a CDO, in my opinion. Like, if you are a smart leader with with good thinking, but more important, like, you speak well, you could be the CDO. But would you just make anyone the CFO of a company? I don’t think so.

You know?

Right. Yeah.

So I I think we treat data like it’s like a football. You know? It just bounce it around. You know?

So Well, it’s another thing that I heard, a common recurring theme that I’ve heard. I first heard it in this this panel of CDOs. So there was the, CDO of of Scotiabank. There’s a CDO of, Best Buy, Craig Brabeck, who who who used the term evangelitics.

I I love that because I think we should all be evangelists about analytics, evangelists about data. So I love that term. But, CDO of of State Farm, and others.

And there was a common theme that came out of that panel discussion that I heard echoed in others, which was this notion of be humble.

Right? As as CDOs, it’s okay to be humble. And and I think it’s it’s okay to acknowledge past failures, and and maybe we focus too much on how things work instead of the benefit that they drive. And and maybe we focus too much on on, you know, potentially, not not being sensitive enough in in in terms of how data is used or the whole data literacy thing.

So this notion of humility, I I I found to be a rather powerful one, because I think that’s the best way Mhmm. To to to get people to open doors. And that’s a big role of the CDOs to go out and network and to sit down with everybody and understand and empathize with Yeah. What’s not working and and and and and be passionate about helping to to provide some solutions to that.

So that was when it was really refreshing to hear these professionals were making a lot of money, very, very successful, talk about how important it is to be humble in their role.

I completely agree with Humber. I have a question Yeah. For you.

So if we are evangelists Yes.

Then could we all be part of something called, like, the church of modern data science?

Yeah. It’s it’s it’s funny. When I was re recruited for my role into Profisee, it was originally the the job was posted as MBM evangelist.

And I saw that. I was like, okay. I get it. Right? I I understand the the role, and that’s that’s a very, very useful and could be powerful word, but I kinda shied away from it a little bit at the beginning because of the religious overtones.

But from the pure definition of evangelist, I think it’s okay. Right? It’s like, I’m out there. I’m a spokesperson for the value of data.

I’m a spokesperson for how transformative data analytics can be, and I think we all need to be that. We’re doing that right now. Yeah. We’re all doing that right now.

So so does that make me an evangelist? I I yes. Does it make me a salesperson?

Yes. It does.

And those things are okay. Those things are those things are important.

So maybe my last question to you, looks like we came up maybe up upon lunch or something here. It’s getting a little louder. Where do you see things going?

Where where where are things going? Right? From from a data analytics space, from a CDO perspective, what’s the future look like?

Like? I think it’s gonna get more complicated because we are now embracing the hybrid multi cloud space.

In fact, some people are not even calling it multi cloud. They’re calling it super cloud, You know?

Super cloud.

Yeah. So super cloud is a new term that, my friend Dave Vellante, and John Furrier have come up with, from the queue. So, but whatever we call it. The the the thing is that that cloud has made, starting a new company so easy and cheap that that there is a, a profusion of, brilliant minds.

In fact, the funny thing that’s happened is that in the last two years of the pandemic, people have sat at home and have built stuff. Some of some of these people have built stuff on the site. So they’re working for a company, trying to solve a problem, and then they come up with this this new technology. And they say, wait.

Why am I working for this company when I can start my own company? VCs have been very open with their, purse strings. So they’ve opened up their their wallets and funded these companies. So I I feel that in every category, there are dozens and dozens of companies that have come up to some start ups, some established, and, and we are going to see this best of breed unbundling, going on for quite some time before people give up and say, no.

Let’s just integrate and bundle things because we just don’t have enough bandwidth time in the day to try to understand these, technologies. Yep. So so I think, you know, analyst companies, firms are going to be very busy because there’s a lot of, education that needs to be done.

Yeah. I certainly see the growth of startups in this space. Most certainly, there’s a bunch in the in the exhibit hall downstairs.

Certainly seeing that. So I’m I’m seeing this this kind of push towards more integrated solutions, you know, what maybe call a data and analytics governance platform that I’m certainly seeing that.

With large, from my perspective, in in the data space, it’s all about scale.

Right? The digital transformation has is is just is blowing up the amount of data we’ve had and we keep saying this, but it’s always true. There’s more data than there ever has been before. And in that data, there’s more insights than there ever has been before.

And we need tools to drive scale. Right? We need processes to drive scale. We and the best way to do that is through automation.

Yeah.

Right? And and it’s not automation for the sake of automating people. It’s it’s automation to keep pace with the amount of data that’s out there and to keep pace with the insights that the business needs to stay competitive.

Right? So we’ve learned this coming out of the pandemic. You know, the ability to pivot fast matters. The the ability to to to manage disruptions matters. My goodness. Right now, if there’s nothing but this whole world is typified by disruptions, whether it’s war or or it’s material shortages or or pandemics.

So the ability to recover from these things and the ability to keep pace Mhmm. Is clearly a function of having a solid, well managed, well governed data estate at scale. Yeah. And that scale will be enabled by the cloud.

Mhmm. Most certainly, cloud is now I would call it table stakes. You you’ve gotta be there. Absolutely.

But you’re there to enable the scale and and to enable the automation. So there is AI. There’s ML. Most certainly, these are not just kind of buzzwords, but machine learning is being heavily applied in data management today.

Yeah. And it will continue to be. So the augmentation of traditional processes, whether data quality, data integration, MBM, those things will most certainly, continue more and more automation. You keep pace with the change.

Maybe five years, seven years down the road, I’m excited about distributed ledger technology. Yes. I’m excited about blockchain. Yes.

I said it. Quantum.

I Quantum. My goodness.

Computers that don’t run on zero and one, that run on probabilities of of of a zero and one, just just it’s it’s a mind blower to me. Most certainly that that will play a role, in in helping to process extremely large sums of date and volumes of data, led primarily, I believe, by financial services, where applying quantum models into financial services will give, you know, the ability to arbitrage, trade. The list is long. I think financial services will thrive quantum, but it’s there, and it’s real. So it’s an exciting time to be Yeah. Data management. It’s an exciting time to be here.

I hope you guys have enjoyed this episode of CDO Matters.

Thank you so much. And it depends. Yes. And it depends.

Yeah. Alright.

Yep. Thank you so much, everyone. Such a pleasure once again to talk to you.

Thanks, all.

See you. Bye.